I've been told many times that I use way too much reverb n delay effects on my vocals, and mostly I agree lol. The truth is I love to use headphones, and a nice quick stereo delay helps me hear myself when I sing. What's another way around that?
#2682 Posted Thu 10 Aug, 2017 3:33 pm
I've been told many times that I use way too much reverb n delay effects on my vocals, and mostly I agree lol. The truth is I love to use headphones, and a nice quick stereo delay helps me hear myself when I sing. What's another way around that?
Originally posted by JAPOV on Thu 10 Aug, 2017
Hey Tony. I would say that you should set it up however you like it in your headphones when recording. A bit of delay and or reverb can help when singing I know. However, what you actually record is best kept dry.
Most setups allow you to add reverb/delay to what you hear in your headphones without actually affecting the recorded track, which is what you probably want.
Most setups allow you to add reverb/delay to what you hear in your headphones without actually affecting the recorded track, which is what you probably want.
#2683 Posted Thu 10 Aug, 2017 4:21 pm
Ha! Yea, but then of course I just put the effects back lol. The clarity in the mix I guess is what I'm really talking about. That illusive sweet spot where you don't have to use so much volume to get presence....
#2684 Posted Thu 10 Aug, 2017 4:47 pm
Ah-ha. If you are talking about mixing the track, that is a whole different ball game! And a much bigger book :)
My suggestions would be to start with 1/ compression (and automation) and 2/ EQ.
It's about making room for the vocals by moving all the other crap out the way frequency-wise, and keeping the vocals on top and in focus throughout.
My suggestions would be to start with 1/ compression (and automation) and 2/ EQ.
It's about making room for the vocals by moving all the other crap out the way frequency-wise, and keeping the vocals on top and in focus throughout.
#2685 Posted Thu 10 Aug, 2017 5:03 pm
Setting up the backing track to sing to is important, you only need the important elements of the music to be up front. Lead guitars, fills and stuff can distract you. Also volume is important here, you can use pink noise to level all the tracks to a certain volume. Play the pink noise alongside the track and adjust thr track till you can just hear it.
The next thing is your gain stage going in, if you use a good preamp before your interface you can push the input gain till it just starts to distort then adjust to your liking. You then adjust the output of the pre, this will give tonal colour to the vocal and make it easier to sing. If you don't have a pre with in and out control you can use another effect in the chain like a compressor to control the output of your vocal to the interface.
A compressor like an 1176 or any copies of that compressor are a good addition to your chain. Slight compression going in is a good way to get a vocal upfront and even. EQ is also a choice you can make at the end of the chain but only slight changes, filter out the low end at this stage. For a male 80 hz is a good guide, females you can move that up further. I often bump up low mids a little and the mid range but only a dB or 2.
Reverb will tend to make you pitchy if you sing with it, you can't hear the tails of notes as well, if you get the gain stage right going in then reverb will not matter to you. If it sounds great dry and feels good to sing to then it will only get better in the mix stage. In fact the better you do this the more the mixer will be working on bringing you back to the music with level and reverb.
The next thing is your gain stage going in, if you use a good preamp before your interface you can push the input gain till it just starts to distort then adjust to your liking. You then adjust the output of the pre, this will give tonal colour to the vocal and make it easier to sing. If you don't have a pre with in and out control you can use another effect in the chain like a compressor to control the output of your vocal to the interface.
A compressor like an 1176 or any copies of that compressor are a good addition to your chain. Slight compression going in is a good way to get a vocal upfront and even. EQ is also a choice you can make at the end of the chain but only slight changes, filter out the low end at this stage. For a male 80 hz is a good guide, females you can move that up further. I often bump up low mids a little and the mid range but only a dB or 2.
Reverb will tend to make you pitchy if you sing with it, you can't hear the tails of notes as well, if you get the gain stage right going in then reverb will not matter to you. If it sounds great dry and feels good to sing to then it will only get better in the mix stage. In fact the better you do this the more the mixer will be working on bringing you back to the music with level and reverb.
#2689 Posted Thu 10 Aug, 2017 7:51 pm
MC, GV... Both outstanding suggestions gentlemen. That's a real good way to think about it.... sometimes the problem is that there's too much other stuff (frequency wise) in the way. The reason I bring this up is because I recently demo'd a vocal that I really fought hard with, but it just sounds like hammered pig $#!&. I was trying to scream over the track the whole time lol, just couldn't hear myself at all :)
#2690 Posted Thu 10 Aug, 2017 8:28 pm
MC, GV... Both outstanding suggestions gentlemen. That's a real good way to think about it.... sometimes the problem is that there's too much other stuff (frequency wise) in the way. The reason I bring this up is because I recently demo'd a vocal that I really fought hard with, but it just sounds like hammered pig $#!&. I was trying to scream over the track the whole time lol, just couldn't hear myself at all :)
Originally posted by JAPOV on Thu 10 Aug, 2017
I see tracks prepared for vocals that are so compressed and loud it makes me wonder how they think it is possible to work with. Even when turned down an overly compressed track is still hard to work with, you need a mix of the appropriate instruments. A drummer can't play over a mix where the main rhythmic elements are blurred beneath strong melody lines and such. A singer needs dynamic room to move, if it is all brickwalled then the human element we all like so much has no room to move. If the track is laid out with dynamics then vocalist has room to move and then we get the human element we all love. That said some genres sound cool compressed but I'm betting they don't start that way.
#2695 Posted Thu 10 Aug, 2017 11:58 pm
As a side idea, if you work on a track that is brickwalled to the max and can't hear your self too well, cut with EQ @ 350hz with a wide Q and around 2Kh again with a wide Q. This should cut some space for you to work with, it wont get around the lack of dynamics but you should hear yourself better. Hopefully the mixer can then blend you in better with your results as they should have the less compressed music at hand. Of course it is always better to ask them for a more appropriate mix that is not compressed and has loads of headroom.
#2696 Posted Fri 11 Aug, 2017 12:11 am
I could be wrong, I'm no pro lol... and the mix stands alone quite well, it begs for vocals! I just can't scream like a little girl anymore :)
#2697 Posted Fri 11 Aug, 2017 1:15 am
I could be wrong, I'm no pro lol... and the mix stands alone quite well, it begs for vocals! I just can't scream like a little girl anymore :)
Originally posted by JAPOV on Fri 11 Aug, 2017
A mix can sound great but still be no good for vocals.
This is the same problem a vocalist will encounter in a band rehearsal, most bands turn up with their 100 Watt amps and quad boxes, drummer has his full kit. They start to play at the loudest volume they can even though the room is small, after all they can easily compete with one another. Then said vocalist comes in with shitty rehearsal P.A and attempts to get on top of this all. If said singer can't then they are labelled as a weak singer as so & so from their last band easily yelled over the top of this all.
But wait ,what if you did this the other way around and got the singer to perform to their and the P.A's abilities and then you adjusted to that, hmmm would that work. Better yet why not use small combo amps and maybe a quarter of the cymbals you usually bring.
My point is, if you are uncomfortable and resort to delay and reverb, what you are doing is adding more volume to the already over extended headroom of the recording. It might be better to adjust the mix to your voice than you adjust to the mix. You might surprise yourself how much of that little girl scream you have left in you then:)
This is the same problem a vocalist will encounter in a band rehearsal, most bands turn up with their 100 Watt amps and quad boxes, drummer has his full kit. They start to play at the loudest volume they can even though the room is small, after all they can easily compete with one another. Then said vocalist comes in with shitty rehearsal P.A and attempts to get on top of this all. If said singer can't then they are labelled as a weak singer as so & so from their last band easily yelled over the top of this all.
But wait ,what if you did this the other way around and got the singer to perform to their and the P.A's abilities and then you adjusted to that, hmmm would that work. Better yet why not use small combo amps and maybe a quarter of the cymbals you usually bring.
My point is, if you are uncomfortable and resort to delay and reverb, what you are doing is adding more volume to the already over extended headroom of the recording. It might be better to adjust the mix to your voice than you adjust to the mix. You might surprise yourself how much of that little girl scream you have left in you then:)
#2698 Posted Fri 11 Aug, 2017 3:41 am
